Post #2

The Keene version of Hansel and Gretel would really be in a more wooded area and forest where it could be easy to understand how simple it is for children to get lost within the forest. The time period would be during a horrible crop season or famine of some sorts. This would provide the logic and back story to the father and stepmother having the children go on there own. Viewing the father do his ax work in the forest can also show that if he really wanted to he would have a pretty good sense to where to look for his children because he was an expert in his trait. There should also be a mentioning of a forbidden area of the forest that they children venture into without the knowledge that the father really has no idea what is beyond that point of the woods. That is where they would find the magical candy house that has a really old woman who lives in it. She would need to do some type of magical thing in order for her to be viewed as a witch so, I suggest that as the children eat at the house that the candy never really goes away. It is never ending candy. And that once the children have their fill they cannot physically move or run away once approached by the old lady who really does not have the intent to eat the children, but rather really wants them to never leave her side so she can have constant company. I believe that is a little straying form the story but that is exactly what Keene likes to do...

Assignment Two

In my eyes, the Keene version of Hansel and Gretel would take place during a great famine when the landscape was very harsh, quite like The Juniper Tree. Our main characters, would live next to a very dense forest of dead trees, where they would frequently venture to chop wood. The father and stepmother were quite worried about feeding their two children, but they never intended to leave them in the woods. On one such wood gathering errand, however, the children strayed from their parents and were no place to be found. Although the parents were concerned with young Hansel and Gretel, they had to return home before they themselves got lost in the dark woods. The children found themselves wandering through the maze of the dead trees in search of their home, but they were far away. They finally stumbled upon a small cabin that seemed quite warm and inviting, with a charming garden and smoky chimney. After knocking on the door, they were greeted by an elderly woman that resided alone in the small home. She offered them a place to stay and fed warm meals to the hungry children. The woman was delighted to have company in her home and secretly tried to put a magical spell on them so they would never leave her. Hansel and Gretel, however, longed to be home with their family and the woman sent them on their way with a whole cart of food to bring to their parents. The children found their way home and the parents were delighted with the goods they had brought with them. In this version, like The Juniper Tree, we see harsh times and rugged landscape, less blame upon the stepmother and father, magic, as well as a more realistic plot that could be construed into the Grimm’s tale upon many repetitions.

Assignment 2- 20.Jan 2009

Hi Erica, Keith, Mallory and Anna,

Below is a copy of the Assignment that was discussed in class today. Well you are from now on a team of four only, as Megan is not doing this course anymore.


The first thing about this assignment that differentiates it from last week's, is the fact that it is going to be TEAMWORK!

Given that you have watched ,,The Juniper Tree'' and attended today's discussion of what this movie portrays, try to, as a group, come up with what Keene's version of ,,Hansel and Gretel", would be. In what sort of a world could this story have been written?

We could assume that the kids are 11 and 13 and the witch is ,,a lone woman'' who lives in a hut in the forest.

Looking forward to all your version of ,,Hansel and Gretel"!

Ann

First promt...also a little late

Hi All, Sorry my post is a day late…I was a little mixed up about the deadline. Anyway, I find the Darnton essay to be most effective in dealing with fairy tales as more than children’s entertainment. Bettelheim grapples with the fairy tale genre as appropriate literature for children because of its underlying messages and their significance in shaping children’s understanding of the world. I find this problematic, however, because I believe, as a child is consuming a fairy tale, they would not be consciously aware of the resulting self betterment from the story. To them, it is merely a source of entertainment. Dartnton, on the other hand, gets at an important point by examining the cultural origins of several different fairy tales. He makes it evident that fairy tales have only loose origins and their plots, characters, etc. can be altered to fit a certain context. For example, he mentioned that the village party, rather than the ball, is the location where Cinderella looses her slipper in the Chinese version of the tale. Psychoanalysts of the past have also looked at fairy tales for deep interpretation and analysis. Therefore, while in our modern, literate society, fairy tales have become associated with the notion of children’s entertainment, they have had many different audiences over time and they can be altered to fit any sort of context.

First Prompt...a little late

Which of the following two essays do you find more productive in helping you to think about fairy tales as more than children's entertainment? Why?

I actually found the Darnton article to be more productive in helping think about folk fairy tales as more than children's entertainment. The Darnton article analizes Bettleheim's arguments regarding the benefics folk fairy tales have for children. Bettleheim seems to show that the folk fairy tales are tools for children to fully develop into functioning adults. Darnton, however, uses the folk fairy tales to discover a lost area of history (the peasantry during the Enlightenment era) and therefore, I think Darnton does a better job at disconnecting folk fairy tales from children's entertainment. Darnton actually removes children all together from the equation whereas Bettleheim, I feel, just rearranges the variables.

Posts in time!

Its nice to see that almost all of you managed to post on time! Great going!

Wuz Up!!! Wuz Up!!!

Hey gals! I'm Keith! I'm a (5th year) senior majoring in History and Political Science! I enjoy the four day weekends only taking classes Tuesday and Thursday affords me. I signed up for this class mainly because I have an attraction to myths, legends, folklore...etc. etc. etc. From the historian inside me, I like to compare the similarities across cultures and time periods. I suffer from EXTREME insomnia so I'm usually awake at all hours of the night...just some fyi!

~~~Prompt One~~~

Which of the following two essays do you find more productive in helping you to think about fairy tales as more than children's entertainment? Why?

The Bruno Bettleheim article [The Struggle for Meaning], really does a great job at seeing the psychology behind fairy tales and expectations lays out for children, However I believe that the Robert Darnton article Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose really makes me think about fairy tales as more than children's entertainment. With the example of the harsh language found in the story of "Little Red Riding Hood." It was an eye opener to have the wolf creature force the little girl to undress and call her a "slut!" This story was not for kids, it was a story just aimed to be a series of symbolizm to tap into the psychology of an adult. Only an adult with a series of lived experience can truely tap into the depths that needs to surface to really connect and understand the story. It is going to be an interesting experience to view these childhood stories I was taught as a kid and use the lens of an adult and that these stories are supposed to be aimed to adults and critical thinkers. I am excited to dive into all this and take this journey with my peers.

Probably the last one to send a response in... Erica D. Santiago

Prompt #1: More than Children's Entertainment

Here is my response:

Of the two essays, I think that the first, written by Bettleheim is most convincing that fairy tales are very different than other children's stories. It is more effective how The Struggle for Meaning focuses on children in general rather than picking apart specific details of various fairy tales. Aside from being more succinct and easier to read, Bettelheim's essay emphasizes what children need to learn at a young age. He says that deeper meaning is what's important. My favorite parts of his explaination of how to achieve deeper meaning are the stimulation of a child's imagination, and the acceptance that there will be dilemmas. Bettelheim goes on to discuss how fairy tales in gnereal address these (and other) needs of children. Although Robert Darnton goes into more specific detail about symbolism in Little Red Riding Hood, the rest of the essay goes all over the place. 

Intro

Hi All, I am Mallory, a senior Art History major from Paducah, KY. I am interested in this class because I have taken German language courses and studied abroad in Berlin, but have never had a German literature course. See you in class!

Bettelheim assignment

Here is my response:

The Bettelheim article makes a strong case for why fairy tales are more than mere children’s entertainment. As argued in the article, not only do fairy tales have a deep effect on children’s unconscious but they have the power to effect adults as well. Bettelheim argues that children’s literature must fulfill the purpose of relating to all aspects of his personality, including giving recognition to the seriousness of the situations that the child encounters throughout their life. Children are exposed to the society in which they live and dealing with that society requires certain unconscious tools to cope with difficult situations. Through fairy tales, children are not just receiving a vacuous message, as found in other children’s literature. They are exposed to moral lessons that show the advantage of moral behavior. More importantly, fairy tales present to children adverse or difficult situations in which the characters deal with the situation and eventually overcome the obstacle. I think this is the most important takeaway from either article; instead of children’s literature that shelters children from the world and only presents human nature in a positive/optimistic light, fairy tales confront the child squarely with basic human problems so that they are better equipped to deal with these problems in the real-world. Fairy tales give children the tools to cope with the world and fosters a well-rounded vision of human nature, both positive and negative. Let me know what you think!

Assignment 1- 13.Jan 2009

Hi Erica, Megan, Keith, Mallory and Anna,

Below you will find the question to which all of you must post one response by Tuesday Midnight.

On Wednesday, there will be four posts to read, since you have four group mates. Read through their responses and comment on at least two of them. You could agree, disagree, pose a related question and try to build on what the other person has said.

By Wednesday Midnight, you will have to have posted the comments, so that I can look through what you have written, and forward interesting posts/comments to Prof. Figal.

THE QUESTION FOR 13.JANUARY 2009:

Which of the following two essays do you find more productive in helping you to think about fairy tales as more than children's entertainment? Why?


Darnton, Robert. “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose,” in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales
or
Bettelheim, Bruno. “The Struggle for Meaning,” in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales


Looking forward to your responses!

Ann

Anna Fargo - Introduction

Hi!

I'm a sophomore from St. Louis, MO and I'm majoring in Civil Engineering. I'm looking forward to this course because as a kid, I was never really familiar with anything but Disney versions of these fairy tales. This'll also be an interesting break from all my engineering classes. Looking foward to our future discussions!

Megan Gilbert-Introduction

Hi everyone! My name is Megan Gilbert and I am a Junior majoring in Communication Studies. I am interested in this class because of the connection between fairy tales and modern stories, archetypes, etc. I am looking forward to hearing your feedback and thoughts. See you in class!

This is a random video from Youtube